MINUTES OF AN ORDINARY MEETING OF THE ASSOCIATION OF NORTH-WESTERN CAR CLUBS HELD AT THE HOLIDAY INN, RUNCORN ON TUESDAY 13th MAY 2003

WELCOME

The Chairman, Bob Milloy, welcomed delegates to the meeting, and also welcomed our President, Allan Dean-Lewis also wearing his MSA “hat” along with Ben Cussons of the Motor Sports Association Board of Directors, noting that this was believed to be the first time a member of the Board had attended any Association meeting.

ATTENDANCE

22 member clubs were represented by 22 delegates as follows:

APOLOGIES

Apologies for absence were recorded from Kay Skellern (General Secretary), Martin Pratt (CTRLO), Martin & Helen Fox (Blackrod MC/Wigan & DMC), Colin Gaukroger (Lancashire & Cheshire Rover OC), John Harden (Liverpool MC), Martin Blackburn (Manx Motor Sport Marshals Association), Mike Cook (Quinton MC), Ken & Mark Wilkinson (Stockport MC), Richard Pearl (Wallasey MC & Motor Sport NW).

MINUTES

The minutes of the previous meeting which had been circulated by post and e-mail were accepted on a proposal by Katy Mashiter (Kirkby Lonsdale MC), seconded by Steve Johnson (CSMA). MATTERS ARISING

Fire tenders – various thoughts on buckets of foam dispensed by means of a pressure washer. The Chairman had floated the idea at the Regional Committee as a point of concern, and that the system would be cheap and easy to operate. Stuart Turner asked Bob Milloy to write a piece on this suggestion for inclusion in the next issue of “The Marshall” (due for publication October 2003). Steve Johnson and Mike Farnworth to consult, along with interested company already sourced (Express Fires) to test and to issue suitable report.

Club lateness in Year Book – the matter of clubs missing from the Year Book and Regional Association lists has been acknowledged by the MSA, and revised registration procedure would be in place for 2004. This will be for an earlier registration date.

MSA - MSA COUNCIL NEWS

Allan Dean-Lewis, wearing his MSA hat, drew attention to the MSA page in the previous week’s edition of Motorsport News. This will be published on the first issue of each month from now on, and was instigated by Motorsport News who were particularly keen to publish details of tribunals. There was an excellent article on John Ryan who, at 25 years of age, is creating a younger image at the MSA. The MSA deemed the monthly article to be a positive way of promoting the image of the MSA.

Club bulletin is now being issued to all licence holders. New blood is to be welcomed on the various MSA committees and invitations are being made to submit nominees.

Regional input into Club and other News is required to benefit clubs. An example is a BARS publicity leaflet which can be found in various Northern Irish hotels, promoting race and rally school courses in the area.

BARS has been the subject of some grumbles regarding new stage rally licence applications. It was noted that ARDS (Races) has been in operation for 12 years, ARKS (Karts) for 7 and both had experienced teething problems in their infancy. BARS are going to have to sort things out, and there is a MSA representative on the BARS board. The standards of the schools is being monitored for consistency. There was some debate as to why such strict measures were required - the concept of the requirements had come about following an incident in 2001, and the recommendations of the Stage Rally Safety Group had proved vital in obtaining insurance for rallies. By the system first time drivers were filtered to ensure they have the necessary capabilities to compete.

Steve Johnson proposed an additional exemption, by means of qualifying as a Grade 1 Marshal and having competition experience in other disciplines. There was discussion as to what the BARS course is trying to achieve and how it does it. The best practices from ARDS and ARKS need to be brought into consideration, along with consistency which the MSA is striving for.

Steve Johnson’s (CSMA) proposal for an additional exemption, by way of new regulation E2.3.4.4 was seconded by Ann McCormack (Warrington & DMC) and carried by a majority vote of 15 to 4, with 3 abstentions. The proposal is to be put forward, where it will require the support of the Rallies Committee for progress.

The previous week had seen a premature announcement of a new style of rallying, Enduro Rallying, based on Historic Road Rallies with special tests, but now for modern cars with an engine size limit. There is a lot of support for this new style and formal regulations should be in place for 2004.

The Rally Marshals Register had now grown to 5,000 in the nine months of operation. The database is now available to organisers, subject to official request on club letter-head and a nominated e-mail address to send the database to, in MS-Excel format. Nigel Banks (Knutsford) stated that they had received the database but it was unworkable in the format presented.

Tabards are being obtained, thanks to support from Alexander Forbes, SLE and the MSF, and these will be distributed to all marshals who were on the register as at 31 December 2002.

The previous week had seen the sudden announcement of insurance for road sections of rallying being withdrawn by Alexander Forbes. This was not the fault of Alexander Forbes nor the MSA. The underwriters (Royal Sun Alliance) had expressed reservations over the Law governing public highways and recent changes gave Police powers to convict offenders on Common Land and such areas. The insurers legal advisers had reservations about the liability they incurred. Out of the blue, Alexander Forbes had received a letter from RSA saying the Rally Drivers Scheme was withdrawn. The MSA had tried to secure cover, and temporary cover was being obtained on a fortnightly basis, with a meeting due for 15th May. Marsh (formerly Bowrings) have similar reservations and are not taking any new proposers. It is noted that premiums have been kept low for a few years, and Alexander Forbes’ handling of claims had been very efficient. It is getting very difficult to obtain insurance cover. The MSA will publicise the outcome when a definite way forward is known.

The MSA is committed to focus on clubs and UK motorsport, but cannot ignore the FIA reference the International calendar of events. There are huge financial implications of ignoring the major events, as half the income of the MSA is generated from them, this subsidising the licence fee. The Rally GB and British Grand Prix has a major effect on funding.

Nigel Banks (Knutsford) stated that the RAC Rally of old was an aspirational event for all club rally competitors, but such competitors are now unlikely to be considered for the event. It was perhaps unique in that the club competitor could compete directly against the world champion, a situation now lost due to the FIA changes. It was explained that the Rally GB had to fall in line with the format laid down, else lose its status and the benefits.

The current World Championship Rallies are made up of 90 cars, 30 for works teams (10 teams of three), 30 for the 1600cc “Junior” category, and 30 at the discretion of the ASN (which could be regional champions). It was suggested by the members that there should be some transparency on how the 30 were selected, as there seemed to be some drivers who were selected for their “promotability” due to success in other areas (British Saloon car racing driver James Thompson as an example – very limited rally experience although a really nice guy!), and that competitors using small cars were also totally ignored.

Mike Broad would be reporting on his findings about the state of British Rallying to the next Rallies Committee.

The May issue of “Wheels” included an excellent editorial by Stuart Turner regarding the various mutterings against the MSA.

ADL reported that he will be attending an event being organised by the AEMC (Eastern Association) on 27th May, run by Bernard Baker. This was to be a “Motorsport Awareness for Landowners and Farmers” event which will promote the idea of diversifying land use for motor sport recreation. In addition to landowners and farmers the event would be open to representatives from the Sports Council and local authorities. Details of the event and, hopefully, a report to be sent to Martin Pratt.

MSA COUNCIL NEWS

The Chairman introduced Ben Cussons, the youngest member of the board (37). Ben explained that he is from the RAC board, the RAC having the right to nominate three of its members to the MSA Board. The board now has three International licence holders, mainly in historic racing. It was noted that Ben had raced in Northern Ireland the previous weekend, having driven his car to and from his Cheshire home.

Ben stated that all comments are noted by the Council, and acknowledged that the MSA do not get everything right. Communications are getting better but are not perfect – yet! It is important that situations are backed up by full facts and constructive criticism is always welcomed.

The board members do not get paid for their work, they are keen motor sport enthusiasts who are helping the sport in all ways. The MSA covers a wide range, from the Grand Prix to Grass Roots, so will always suffer from criticisms from one or the other. It would be tragic if Britain lost the Grand Prix, but at the same time the MSA wishes to develop grass roots more, and welcomes ideas. Without the grass roots there will be no future for motor sport, we need to encourage young people onto committees for their valued ideas. Youngsters may not wish to push out the older, experienced members of committee but a wide mixture is essential for growth.

The MSA “Blue Book” is regarded as the best in the world and many ASN’s copy.

When the Motoring Services split up from the RAC the MSA was on its’ own, then IMS was formed to look after the commercial aspects. IMS is not share-owning, money is returned into the Motor Sport Fund. The MSA is purely in a governing role – paid from licence and event permit fees. It is hoped that it will give an ever-improving service. Several recent retirements see a fairly new team operating, and they will address all issues.

The next Council meeting is in June.

MSA REGIONAL COMMITTEE

John Grant had attended the last Regional Committee meeting and given very robust answers to questions. The suggestion of licencing all competitors had met with a lot of feedback and the idea has been withdrawn, having been a “trial balloon” to promote and establish the feeling, which was well felt.

A working group has been formed from the Regional Committee delegates, consisting of two from England (Martin Chinnery for the South and Bill Troughear for the North), one from Scotland (Jonathan Lord), one from Northern Ireland (Nicky Moffitt) and one from Wales (initially Kath Barber). They had attended an exploratory meeting in Newcastle and a further meeting was planned for early August, after which a report will be presented to the Regional Committee, before making thoughts public. The working group is another tier.

Bob Milloy stated that he had requested clubs provide him with bullet points of issues that were relevant to the MSA and was disappointed that only one club had responded – Wigton MC raising the issue of loss of venues, and flexibility of the motor sport calendar. Bob had also raised the issues of fires in cars (see Matters Arising).

MSA RALLIES COMMITTEE

There had been two meetings of the Rallies Committee since the last ANWCC meeting.

It was pleasing to see that K31(a) was still under discussion and a proposal has now been put forward to amend the penalty from “Exclusion” to “Retired”, so removing much of the stigma of exclusion for possibly a trivial problem.

It has been identified that the requirement for a “D” plate to be displayed on the door of any disabled competitor is not always noticed in an incident, and this was to be replaced by a Velcro armband displaying the “D” along with a pocket into which details of the disability could be inserted, for easy identification to medical crews and marshals.

Enduro Rallying was announced. The Road Rally Study Group have come up with various ideas resulting from their investigations.

MSA SPEED COMMITTEE

Peter Riley reported on the meeting held 24th February where much discussion went into the revision of classes.

There have been problems on licencing, with incorrect charges being made in respect of competitors with National A and Open licences.

No restriction was to be put on “Radical” tyres in “Supersport” classes. Debate on the modified Production classes is continuing. Most queries seem to be thrown up by individuals who generally do not like change or try to change against particular individuals or cars.

MSA TIMING ADVISORY PANEL

Eric Cowcill reported that there are different systems of “Traffic Lights” for stage rallies, and these need to be standardised. One recent event used three different types on the same event, causing problems for competitors. It is suggested that a sample be displayed in scrutineering.

The requirement for a National A Timekeeper to attend events using the traffic light system will not be relaxed.

Problems had been experience in certain races due to a bad batch of transponders from Holland. These have been identified but the supplier is not being very helpful.

CORRESPONDENCE

Various invites to events, already covered by being in the ANWCC Championships.

Various minutes from other Associations.

REPORTS

GENERAL SECRETARY

Nothing to report other than included elsewhere.

TREASURER

Little to report other than the Association had funded the Training Day at Myerscough, and we will be reimbursed by the MSA.

There are a few clubs who have still not paid their subscriptions and will be deleted from our membership list if the final reminder is not actioned.

CHAMPIONSHIPS SECRETARY

Dave Thomas stated that the number of registered contenders stood at 346, just one sort of the final total for last year. This does not include the Off-Road Trials Championship contenders, of which there are 20. The first such event had been run and very well-received.

Results were coming in thick and fast and with no problems to report. The website www.anwcc.org was being continually updated and was now being hit on average 100 times a day, the total now over 21,000 in the fifteen months of operation.

It was hoped to attract advertisers to the site.

A new championship was being put forward for 2004 – Formula 1000 Rally Challenge being for cars of less than 1000cc. The full details were being worked on, at the instigation of Tristan Dodd of PEC Tyres and a sponsor is likely. Clive Baty has assisted in the regulations and a press release will be issued soon. Tristan has already gained a lot of support for the idea, with about twelve competitors committed to the series. It is to be investigated if there is any possibility of allowing under-17’s into such a category. Tristan has also built a 1000cc Nissan Micra which will be used by celebrity drivers, not eligible for championship points but would be a benchmark for other competitors.

The prize draw for ‘Marshal of the month’ for February, March and April was picked by ADL - these being Helen Jackson (North Wales CC), Ann McCormack (Warrington & DMC) and Malcolm Rainforth (Ilkley & DMC).

Offers of awards for the annual marshals’ draw were invited.

INTER-ASSOCIATION EVENTS

Autotest – being held on 21st June at Rufforth. Steve Johnson was authorised to submit two teams made up of current championship contenders.

RTV Trial – Lancashire & Cheshire Rover OC have offered to organise the event, planned for 31st August although the original site is no longer available due to military requirements. Further details to follow.

Production Car Trial – being run on 14th September, organised by the Owen MC.

Stage Rally – in a different style to previous years, the event will be held at Swinderby on 18th October and will be limited to two-wheel-drive non-turbo cars. There is a general feeling that the event will not be well-supported as a stand-alone event, previous events having been based on BTRDA qualifiying events that attract crews from almost all regional areas.

Road Rally – being organised in the East Midlands region.

Autocross – being run near Chepstow on 9th August.

FORESTRY LIAISON OFFICER

Martin Pratt was not present, nothing to report.

AINTREE LIAISON OFFICER

Mike Ashcroft reported on a meeting held three weeks previous, and he was hopeful of anniversary dates for 2004, although this is awaiting confirmation.

Liverpool MC’s sprint had been held without problems. The pavilion showers and heating has been wrecked, with little hope of them being repaired.

There are plans to extend the golf course to 18 holes which will affect the parking area (more so for motor-cyclists) and the Club Corner area, although funding has not yet been sourced. There are other potential problems with the golf course layout.

It has been proposed that motorsport fees remain the same for 2004.

Aintree Racecourse Company are now more committed to motorsport and acknowledge the historical aspect of the venue. However, £500k is being invested in golf, and it was suggested that perhaps a similar investment into motorsport may reap greater dividends.

A suitable celebration is being planned for the 50 years of Aintree Circuit.

Next meeting is a track day on 31st May.

OTHER VENUE LIAISON

Weeton will be having a further two events in 2003, organised by Blackpool (South Shore) MSC and the Clitheroe & District MC – both events are qualifying rounds of the ANWCC Championships.

PRESS OFFICER

Anyone wishing assistance with the Press may contact Katy Mashiter for advice. Advertising on our website is now being sought.

TRAINING OFFICER

Mike Farnworth stated that the funding for Myerscough has now been resolved.

There has been overwhelming take up for Rick Bate’s First Aid Courses.

Mike has visited Coleg Rhyl and found the staff to be very enthusiastic for clubs to be involved, with fantastic facilities available, including rolling road equipment. The venue is initially available through North Wales CC then through other clubs and the Welsh Association. There will be an Introduction to Rally Marshalling on 25th and 28th June, these dates to be confirmed due to catering requirements. The College will make facilities available for nest year’s training, which will be jointly promoted with the Welsh Association.

Any club wishing to run a training evening should give Mike at least three weeks notice, due to overwhelming demand.

RALLY LIAISON OFFICER

No report in Martin Pratt’s absence.

Jack Romain, RLO for North Wales, is holding a meeting of clubs who run events on map 116, on 20th May to discuss potential problems of overuse of the area.

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

Jim Spencer (BRCA) has drawn up a Child Protection Policy which was suggested as being suitable for publication on www.anwcc.org. ADL agreed to liaise with Pippa Murphy of the Child Protection Agency in Northern Ireland, who has been involved with ANICC, to check out the policy before publication.

Steve Johnson reported that the CSMA Marshalling Group includes and encourages many under 18-year-olds in its activities and was surprised that very few clubs ask for parental permission when signing-on the marshals, staff not being aware of this requirement. Allan Dean-Lewis stated that is a need to encourage youngsters in this way, but there is an extra level of bureaucracy that has to be dealt with.

John Francis (DoFMC) reported that the Charity Track Day on 15th August is in need of 169MHz radios. Mike Farnworth immediately stated that this is not a problem! There are some places left for the track day. John had recently completed the London Marathon carrying a replica Citroën 2CV and had attracted 12 seconds of BBC TV coverage on the highlights programme. The car sported ANWCC Championship and “Thanks for Marshalling” stickers. His time was over eight hours but raised a lot of money. A further raffle is being held with a first prize being £200 worth or racing lessons.

Dave Thomas reported that there was a wish for promoting motorsport to ethnic groups, and a conversation with Naveed Iqbal, former member of Stockport MC, showed that Nav is trying to encourage his group with little success to date. A similar initiative in the South of England is being promoted by three Afro-Caribbeans.

The Forest Enterprise is appointing a Motorsport Manager to help the sport, there being issues of road maintenance due to felling and trees not being replaced, trying to make better use of resources and leisure activities.

DATE AND PLACE OF NEXT MEETING

The meeting closed at 2250 hours, members were thanked for attending with special thanks to Allan Dean-Lewis and Ben Cussons. The next meeting will be held on Tuesday 12th August 2003 at the Holiday Inn, Runcorn, commencing at 2000 hours.

AGENDA ...

... for the Ordinary Meeting of the Association of North-Western Car Clubs, which will be held at Holiday Inn Runcorn, on Tuesday 12th August 2003, commencing at 2000 hours.



p.p. Kay Skellern
General Secretary - Association of North-Western Car Clubs
17 Johnson Close, Henshall Hall, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 3TQ